Karly Hartzman on Wednesday getting heavier, 'Yep Definitely' years, biggest regrets, more

Karly Hartzman had a big year on all fronts. Her band Wednesday released their most successful album yet, Bleeds, another helping of intoxicatingly skronky alt-country songs with a choose-your-own adventure set of appeals: either surrender to the noise or get lost in the storytelling. Fans and critics embraced both. Snippets from Wednesday's fall North American tour were all over my timeline for months, and I can't think of any band other than Geese (or maybe Wednesday's own MJ Lenderman) who occupied more space in the indie zeitgeist this year.

Outside of music, Hartzman published a personal essay on the website Vulture earlier this fall where she wrote candidly, memoir-style, about the dissolution of her years-long romantic relationship with Lenderman. Everyone I know who read it touted it as one of the greatest pieces of writing in 2025, a remarkable display of empathy, bravery, and awkward humanity – of realness – that opened up a whole other writerly pathway for Hartzman to explore, should she choose to.

That essay was great, but I'm also keen on the far more casual scribblings Hartzman publishes on her blog/website Prison Divorce Bombshell, where she posts about her monthly media diet and shares updates about her life in a way that goes deeper than what artists usually post on social media (which she's virtually never on anymore) yet doesn't feel self-exploitative or marketably parasocial. It's just cool. She listens to a ton of new and new-to-her music all the time and often blogs about her recent finds, which is something I wish more artists did.

I've been listening to Wednesday's music since 2019, and as she confirmed to me in the below interview, I was lucky enough to be there the first time Hartzman ever performed onstage to a live audience. However, until we chatted over the phone earlier this month, I'd never done a proper interview with Hartzman. We talked for an hour-and-change while she took her afternoon walk, causing intermittent road noise to bleed through the phone while she spoke – simulating the distorted crackle of a Wednesday song.

Hartzman had already done a gazillion interviews this year where she was asked about Bleeds and the period of her life that informed it, so I wanted to ask different questions. We talked about the personal impact of Wednesday's growing popularity, the band's earliest years, the trajectory of her music taste, getting super into hardcore, career sustainability, her biggest regrets, how she takes criticism, managing ego, what Wednesday's next album will sound like, and much more.

You just home from Wednesday’s latest U.S. headliner. What were the highlights and lowlights of that tour? 

The lowlights off the top, we were having hella van trouble. Our “check engine” light was on the entire tour. Both Xandy [Chelmis, pedal steel] and our sound guy Christian are car guys. and so they were like, “we'll fix it.” So they changed out the spark plugs in a parking lot in New Mexico somewhere, and changed the air filter, which was really fucked up, and that seemed to do something. So just van trouble out that ass. It was so intense. It’s hard to get in a van knowing you have to drive for six or seven hours that day when it just sounds like it's about to break. And luckily, it was fine, but it’s really energy consuming to drive in a car that's not really working all the way. 

And then the best? We had some awesome shows in really unexpected cities. My favorite shows were in places where we haven't had legendary shows, which is really cool. Because of course you're gonna think that New York and L.A., the biggest ones, are gonna be the coolest. But we just had shows that felt good and right, with really nice, homey feeling audiences, in Salt Lake City and San Diego, randomly. And Montreal was lit as fuck. And those are places that don't feel like home to us at all. So to have an audience that fucks with us like a hometown crowd would in these random cities felt really cool.

How would you say the composition of the Wednesday crowd has evolved over the last few years? What does a Wednesday fan look like these days? 

Well, it's an amalgamation of the demo that you'd expect: mid-20s women. But it also brings together the fans that we would have played to [while] opening [for other bands] over the years. Like, there's people that saw us a million years ago when they were tweens open for Beach Bunny, and now they're, like, 20 themselves and they're like, “Oh my God, I didn't even know I liked noisy-ass music at the time, but that opened a world for me.” And those are really cool.

And then there's of course people that saw us open for Jason Isbell or Drive By Truckers, and they're, like, older dudes, and also probably MJ Lenderman fans are kind of in that range, too. We’ve had a few creepy weirdos that I I could count on one hand, actually. Every time there's a creepy weirdo, I'm like, this is a very strange and new experience, which is awesome because most of our fans are normal as fuck, they're so cool. 

I think the thing I worry about is as our music gets a little harder and screamier, which is kind of the trajectory we’re headed in, is I can tell there's maybe a  learning curve for moshing. And that can be really hard to watch from the stage. Seeing the barrier people at the front just having no idea what's coming, and then just getting push against the barrier. And then older folks coming really early for the show, too, and just seeing their faces gradually be like, “What the fuck is going on?”

I saw a guy just get kicked in the face by a crowd surfer, and then two minutes later he just wasn’t there and I’m like, “Fuck! That guy just got rocked, in a bad way.” I think that'll be an interesting kind of progression, to try to figure out how to direct an audience or take care of an audience that maybe doesn't have experience with that kind of music.

There are kind of two sides to Wednesday on Bleeds, with heavy songs like “Wasp” and lighter ones like “Elderberry Wine.” And you’re saying that Wednesday are going to get screamier and rougher going forward? 

Absolutely. It’s definitely what I'm most inclined towards. We're not going to make a straight-up hardcore record, but I think with every record I give myself more and more permission to sound more like my favorite bands, which are Swirlies and Unwound. That kind of music, but with a screaming vocal, because I love how it feels to do that. It's become a really important part of my psychological self-care to scream.

Are there any particular frontpeople who you’re thinking of emulating when you scream? 

Oh yeah, 100% Christina [Michelle] from Gouge Away, and we just announced they’re opening for us, which is crazy. When I met her, I was really…I don’t know, meeting your heroes. But I could tell that what I told her, that I was obsessed with her vocal style, that she'd be a little perplexed because a lot of our music is not as hard as that. But she was so cool about it. And then obviously just Missy from Mannequin Pussy’s confidence onstage in that zone is just really…I would like to be a more confident frontperson. That’s a muscle that I'm kind of using her shit as inspiration for.

Do you think you’ll drop the guitar more and just straight-up hold the mic? 

Hopefully a mix. I like having something in my hands a lot better. Ideally, I will be playing guitar as much as possible. 

Are you ever gonna stage-dive or flip off the stage? 

[Laughs]. I’ve done stuff where I go in the crowd before, and I’ve been fine, including crowd-surfing during a song. But I always feel really funny when I don’t get back to the stage in time and the band’s just waiting for me after a song is already over. 

Fair. I just think it would be dope to see you do a straight-up hardcore front-flip. Maybe get a trampoline and start practicing. 

Only problem is the one time I ever tried to do a front-flip on a trampoline my nose hit my knee and I got a nosebleed. So I don’t even do a front-flip into water. I don’t do a front-flip ever because I’m traumatized. 

So every time Wednesday goes out now you’re playing to bigger and bigger crowds as the band gets bigger. Does that make coming home to your own space feel more or less gratifying? Like, does it feel weird to have that solitude after being around so many people for so long? 

Oh, no. The whole point of my home life right now is consistency. So when I'm home, I'm in a different mental zone completely. I'm not really thinking about my life on tour as much as possible, because I think that's the state of mind I have to be to write a good song. So I'm really proactive about keeping those two things separate. Also, I’m such an introvert, I feel insane the whole time I'm on tour. So the second I'm alone, I'm like, OK, yeah, this is a really easy place for me to get back to feeling normal. I've adapted enough. I've been touring for a decade, so I’m not going insane in [a way where] I'm having a terrible time. I'm functioning just enough to have fun. It’s really intense.

That's why I’ve always thought that I could never tour like that because I’m similarly an introvert, and even spending three days straight with my best friends is exhausting for me. How did you adapt to that setting, though? 

Like you’re saying, it has to be your best friends. I don’t know how bands that are acquaintances or have any sort of personal beef can do it. Because these are people I would kill and die for. If I'm having a bad day, they can tell and they leave me the fuck alone. Or if they're Xandy, they push me in a way. Xandy loves poking the bear, but I know he does, so I'm prepared for it.

I just know these people. We've seen the very worst of each other, so I know the worst thing that could happen, and it's not that bad. Just having a dialed-in crew who leave me alone when I need to be. And if I ask for my own room, because we kind of alternate who gets their own room at the hotel, but if I'm like, “Y'all, I'm at the end of my fucking rope, I need my own room,” even if it's not my turn they’ll be like, “OK, you’re good.” 

Here’s a random question I’ve been meaning to ask you for a while. I have a memory of being at Fest 2018 in Gainesville, and I was watching Pictures of Vernon, but the band had become Diva Sweetly at that show, it was your guys’ first show. And I have a memory of something you said onstage, or maybe it was around that time, where you said that that was your first time ever playing in a band onstage. Is that true? 

That wouldn't surprise me. I probably played other shows at DIY venues, but that was probably my first time on a stage, yeah. Because I had been touring with them just as a hanger-on for probably a year or so, doing a little interview zine and stuff, and I gradually weaseled my way in. But yeah, I had no idea what the fuck I was doing in that band. I straight-up didn't play an instrument. I just had this microKORG that I had taped all of my parts onto the keys, like the order in which I was supposed to press the keys. I still don't know how to play piano at all.

I mean, [playing on a stage] was what I had always wanted to do. So I was probably just locked in and ready, but I was probably also freaking out. But I was also with all my friends at that show, because it was like Kory [Gregory, Prince Daddy & the Hyena singer] and Zoe [Reynolds, Kississippi singer] and I'd been hanging out with them for years.

Yeah, it was exciting to see you up there that day, and also exciting to see you do this totally other type of music and eventually take this very different path. But in some way, it started with that world of emo-punk or whatever. 

Yeah, that was really the only type of band I had any connection to in Greensboro at the time. That was kind of the only thing people my age were making. And I identified with it, in a way. But even at that time, that's why Diva Sweetly didn't last that long. By the time the record came out, I was like, “yeah, I can't be in denial with how much I fuck with My Bloody Valentine over The Front Bottoms.” That's just what I prefer, and it actually doesn't feel that good to make music that isn't the type of music I want to be making.

So that band just came to that natural conclusion for that reason? 

Yeah. We went on one tour opening for someone and I probably didn't have the best attitude about it, compared to when I was just chilling with them, not in the band. They probably kept me around because I had a good attitude, and then it just takes one tour with someone that's not very stoked to be like, “actually, yeah, this isn't fun for anyone.” So it was a very natural [ending]. It’s crazy, I’m glad that they invested a lot into changing the name of the band and all this stuff because I had joined. So they were cool about it overall.

Yeah, I just think it’s a fun little blip in your trajectory. I think that's a great record still, I re-listened to it somewhat recently. 

Dang, yeah I can’t listen to that record, it makes me feel so…it doesn't feel like me at all because I just wasn't really into that music when we were making it. My parents love that record. That's probably one of their favorite things I've ever done. 

By the time you had joined Diva Sweetly, you had already released Yep Definitely as Wednesday right? That came out in January 2018. 

I believe so, I don't remember the exact order. But yeah, that was definitely in 2018. I think that was honestly the nail in the coffin, the fact that I was making my own music separately from Diva by the time that came out. I was like, “Oh, wait. I didn't even know I could do that.” And then I was like, “I just want to do this,” because I'm in charge of this music, and Page [Ragan] was in charge of writing all the Diva Sweetly songs. I just wanted to be a songwriter more than anything. 

Did you ever play any of those Yep Definitely songs live? 

Yeah, we played those songs for just local shows in Asheville. So the original lineup was Daniel [Gorham] from Diva on lead guitar, Page from Diva, Alan [Miller] on drums. Alan has been in the band since day one. We did like four shows like that. We played my sister’s birthday party and my friend Samuel’s birthday party, and then after we started doing different stuff, adding different members. 

Yep Definitely has been off streaming for a while. Why did you decide to pull it? 

Those are the first songs I ever wrote in my life. It’s a necessary part of my journey, but it's not a necessary part that I think a fan of Wednesday should have easy access to. If you're a fan that wants to dig deeper and find that shit [you can], but it's not necessarily a part that I want just anyone to associate with what I want Wednesday to be. Which is more what we became over time.

It is cool to see a bunch of people who are very passionate about it on YouTube being like, “Yo, this was so good.” 

Yeah. And similar with Diva, I thought I was supposed to be making pop music even though I loved this noisier shit. And that was before I gave myself permission to make noisier shit, and so I was just like, damn, I don't want to be inside of this brain moment where I wasn't letting myself do what I actually wanted to do. I think it's cool. Like, Alex G obviously has a similar crowd of people that love digging for that shit, and I think that's cool as fuck. There’s plenty of stuff that people could find if that's what they like, and I like when any band has that stuff you can really dig for. 

I’d like to go back even further, because I feel like I have an unspoken camaraderie with people in indie-rock who were once into cheesy Warped Tour music, as I know you were. Your first show was a Never Shout Never show, right? 

Yeah, in fifth grade. I went with my boyfriend at the time. He was trying to be a Myspace model. 

In fifth grade? 

Yeah. And he ended up doing that – I don’t know what he’s doing now. But that was his thing, even then, which is crazy. 

Were you on Myspace, too? 

Yeah, because my sister was and I would just worship my sister. Like, this was all my sister’s music and life that I just usurped. You know how it is when you don’t even know how to find music yet? I don’t know why she wasn’t at that show because she probably showed me his music. 

Did you actually go to Warped Tour ever? 

No, my sister did. My dad had taken her, and he hated it so much that I never got the chance. My dad loves music festivals. He’s gone to a bluegrass festival every year for three decades, and he took her to Bonnaroo once. But yeah, because he hated [Warped Tour] so much he was like, “we're not doing that one again.”

So how did you get from that type of shit to indie-rock? 

That was definitely my friend Samuel. He’s like my oldest childhood friend, and we both still live in Greensboro, but he went to my synagogue and we did community theater together and then we'd hang out outside of that. We’d just go to his house and play ping pong and listen to records. I remember him playing Sunny Day Real Estate, Cocteau Twins, My Bloody Valentine. And just opening that world for me and me immediately understanding that [music] more than the stuff I was kind of trying to fit into my sister's mold because I thought she was cool. It was like, oh wait, this is the stuff that when this comes on, I'm like, "I get music, and I want my life to revolve around music." 

Belle and Sebastian was a big one, too. That was a really easy access point actually because they're just so pleasant. I feel like it was probably more something like that in the beginning. Probably took more than one try to get immediately into My Bloody Valentine. Not gonna act like I understood that immediately in fifth grade. But probably something like Belle and Sebastian or Superchunk or something more accessible, and then gradually going down the path to noisy shit. 

So you were into this stuff in middle school? 

Yeah. it was just completely [because of] my friend. If he wasn’t there I wouldn't have found it. 

And then in high-school were there any bands you found that were core to your musical identity? 

I feel like it was more like college. High school was just kind of transitional from that kind of stage. Because he just used to take me to shows in Chapel Hill, and then I was just listening to whatever he did until we both went to different schools. And then once I went to school, that's when I found The Sundays. Yep Definitely is The Sundays worship record, actually, because I found them and was like “oh, everything is different.”

That's also when I found my own niche within country music, too. Rediscovering all the country records that I just heard on the radio growing up, and identifying with them separately [that childhood] environment. Like, being not forced to listen to them, but just them being ambiently on in the background. For a lot of that reason, I didn't even know the names of the country artists that I was listening to. Like, some really obvious ones. And I started to learn that kind of shit in college. 

College was Swirlies, too? 

Yeah, because Alan, our drummer, showed me Swirlies and I met him my sophomore year of college. 

Did you read a book or two on hardcore this year? 

I purchased a book or two that you recommended. I will be reading them! I started reading the New York Hardcore one just randomly one day. But I haven't actually dug that deep into any of them. I mostly listen to Hardlore. I’ve listened to a lot more of that than I’ve read at the moment, but I need to re-delve. 

Well that's cool. I was just wondering how it’s felt to continue your hardcore journey and get more into that genre? What’s so compelling to you about that world? 

I just missed it. Like, it's just not something I ever connected with at the time when I should have, so I'm kind of just trying to go back and rebuild at least a little foundation if I'm going to be influenced by that music at all [going forward]. It’s more fun to play a higher energy show, because I kind of want to make music that caters to that. I don't want to get more singer-songwritery. I kind of want to just curate a space for people to go nuts at a show. I kind of just want to understand the shit because I worship Unwound so crazy. Like, what elements did Unwound get from this kind of music? 

Just trying to learn the basics. Especially because the hardcore scene in Greensboro is kind of the most prominent, and they're younger kids. And I want to go to the shows as an elder and be like, Oh, I have knowledge of this space even though I didn't have access to it when I was their age. Like, I kind of want to be able to hang with the kids here. 

That's so sick, though. I think hardcore is a really fun genre because it’s a youth-based genre, but you can really grow into it because there’s so much history and minutia. 

Yeah, that's what's a little intimidating about it. Like, it's a little easier for me to listen to someone just talk about it than to dig into a book where every 20 words I'm having to pull out my phone and listen to something. But I do want to for-real pay my dues to it if I'm going to be making anything even close to adjacent. Even just finding bands like Integrity or Go It Alone, that's music I wouldn't have heard if I didn't delve a little deeper. Especially with Integrity, I can tell their basslines are going to be really influential on whatever I tell Ethan [Baechtold] the vibe is for this next record. Because they're so iconic and simple, but leading the whole song. 

I’m just fascinated by that because there aren’t many instances of bands becoming heavier over time, even hardcore or metal bands. So I think it’s very cool to hear that Wednesday are going to become more abrasive. 

Yeah, it's just what I want to do, which feels good. I don't feel pressure from the label or the audience to do a certain thing. So I feel like that's like the best place to be for doing what I want to do. That was like a big caveat of whatever label we signed you. Like, I kind of have to be able to do whatever I want.

I know you listen to all sorts of new music. Who was your favorite new band or artist you discovered this year? 

I had my first run-in with Polvo this year, which was awesome because I obviously identify as shit with North Carolina, and as a kid I was like, damn, there's nothing happening here music-wise. I listen to this podcast Drifter’s Sympathy which is about Chapel Hill and the scene here in the 90s. And he has a whole episode about Polvo, and just hearing that within context. Like, this music that's basically my dream music to make: just heavy, dissonant, sometimes screaming vocals, but just high energy shit, that I had heard tell of but hadn't had an access point or anything. I've connected with them in a really deep way for the first time this year.

I know you’ve been smoking on that 9million shit, too. 

Yeah! I got that from your blog. 

Damn, that's cool. What do you like about 9million? 

I like that they're kind of butt-rocky. I told the frontperson Matt that and he’s like, “Yeah, I mean…I guess?” I was like, “no, that's what I love!” I love ass-rock riffs. And also their ethos seems really cool. They just threw this huge show at a church, like really DIY-style, which I think is cool to do in tandem with multiple tours opening for Ethel Cain. You know, bringing that ethos to that audience that might follow them into Toronto and adopting them, possibly, into a DIY hardcore scene. All those dudes…it was very much how it was with Hotline TNT and TAGABOW: instant friends. Just like, we get it, they get it.

I know another band you’ve been into is Star 67, which is sick because they're still mad underground, but maybe not for long. What do you like about them? 

Yeah, they're younger, and I didn't know how young they were until we played with them. Honestly, my favorite thing that I hear on those records is the little samples and shit that they choose. They have a very discerning ear with those fake radio bumper samples. And also they do kind of, barely-a-song stuff, which I'm really into. The drummer-singer is probably the best drummer I’ve seen recently. So to have such a virtuosic capability, and then make music that's just like barely music is really sick.